Steve Morse

[Harald Schneller]

Well, not really a midi guitar player, but definitely one of a kind.
A pony running at 150 speed all the time.

Steve has definitely collated the rock in one!

This is, in my opinion something, only an american can do.
Like Evil Knievel, or 4 god's sake, fly me to the moon.

And he is still doin it, Purpel's best choice.

Damn, what a guitar player

Best Harald
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[Paul Cunningham]

really? i kinda remember seeing him use it live about 15 years ago in st. pete when he was touring as the steve morse band. it was mostly layered stuff if I remember. there was no keyboard player.

also this interview kinda indicates that he's currently using midi on his guitar... though not what for specifically:

http://www.guitarmessenger.com/interviews/steve-morse-interview/

Post by Harald Schneller
Well, not really a midi guitar player, but definitely one of a kind.
A pony running at 150 speed all the time.
Steve has definitely collated the rock in one!
This is, in my opinion something, only an american can do.
Like Evil Knievel, or 4 god's sake, fly me to the moon.
And he is still doin it, Purpel's best choice.
Damn, what a guitar player
Best Harald

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Paul Cunningham]

actually, you can definitely see where he *did* have a MIDI pickup mounted on his pickguard in this video:

Post by Paul Cunningham
really? i kinda remember seeing him use it live about 15 years ago in st. pete when he was touring as the steve morse band. it was mostly layered stuff if I remember. there was no keyboard player.
http://www.guitarmessenger.com/interviews/steve-morse-interview/

Post by Harald Schneller
Well, not really a midi guitar player, but definitely one of a kind.
A pony running at 150 speed all the time.
Steve has definitely collated the rock in one!
This is, in my opinion something, only an american can do.
Like Evil Knievel, or 4 god's sake, fly me to the moon.
And he is still doin it, Purpel's best choice.
Damn, what a guitar player
Best Harald

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Les Fradkin]

Actually, Steve is, strictly speaking, a pitch to Midi guitarist. And quite a good one.

Les

http://www.lesfradkin.com

Post by Harald Schneller
Well, not really a midi guitar player, but definitely one of a kind.
A pony running at 150 speed all the time.
Steve has definitely collated the rock in one!
This is, in my opinion something, only an american can do.
Like Evil Knievel, or 4 god's sake, fly me to the moon.
And he is still doin it, Purpel's best choice.
Damn, what a guitar player
Best Harald

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Bob Hansmann]

Hi Les,

Post by Les Fradkin
Actually, Steve is, strictly speaking, a pitch to Midi guitarist. And quite a good one.

Absolutely, and for quite some time now. He seems to get so little
appreciation for the great player and innovator that he has been over
the years. I guess he sounds too 'rock' for the straight-ahead Jazzers,
and he scares the shit outta the Rockers, but, whatever the reason, he's
an excellent musician.

When he can actually afford players, he always attracts the best.
Unfortunately, his budgets are always surprisingly low, and so looping,
recorded backing tracks, &c are pretty common, and the audience never
knows what they are going to see.

For those who so staunchly defend their use of backing tracks and
loopers, and the most horrendous of all - Band in a Box, I would suggest
a close look at how badly they are working for him, but that's a
whole-nuther topic of conversation.

best,
Bobby


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[Les Fradkin]

Bob,
Nice to hear from you. So let's start that conversation- the use of backing tracks to supplement a live performance of Midi Guitar.

I use them with the Ztar because they can be seamlessly incorporated using Ableton Live.

They are, IMHO, an economic necessity these days, since buyers and promoters will NOT spend the money necessary to present complete bands unless they are willing to play for next to nothing. And travel for a 4 or 5 piece band can be very costly.

Thoughts?

Les

http://www.lesfradkin.com

Post by Bob Hansmann
Hi Les,

Post by Les Fradkin
Actually, Steve is, strictly speaking, a pitch to Midi guitarist. And quite a good one.

Absolutely, and for quite some time now. He seems to get so little
appreciation for the great player and innovator that he has been over
the years. I guess he sounds too 'rock' for the straight-ahead Jazzers,
and he scares the shit outta the Rockers, but, whatever the reason, he's
an excellent musician.
When he can actually afford players, he always attracts the best.
Unfortunately, his budgets are always surprisingly low, and so looping,
recorded backing tracks, &c are pretty common, and the audience never
knows what they are going to see.
For those who so staunchly defend their use of backing tracks and
loopers, and the most horrendous of all - Band in a Box, I would suggest
a close look at how badly they are working for him, but that's a
whole-nuther topic of conversation.
best,
Bobby

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Bob Hansmann]

Hi Les,

I think the whole 'midi-thang', even with its shortcomings, has opened
up a world of new possibilities to interested guitarists, some artistic
and some not no much, depending upon the sensibilities of the guitarist
(2 words which perhaps should be usually avoided as to their use in the
same sentence). Personally, with or without midi, I would never use
backing tracks of any kind in a live solo performance, but I know some
who have used them effectively - violinist Daisy Jopling comes to mind,
but now that she has established herself more firmly in the U.S.
marketplace, she uses them less and less exclusively.

I am a member of a List which calls itself a 'Jazz Guitar list', and
you'd be surprised at how many players do use backing tracks (mostly
self-made adaptations of cheesy BIAB tracks, seemingly unaware of the
musical interaction so necessary for Jazz to even be called Jazz.. My
advice to these guitarists is either to 'get with the program', or stop
calling themselves Jazz guitarists at all, and just go out as an
inexpensive, part-time gigging player and call it 'a day'. It is my
observation that they do this for purely reasons of economics, and those
because they simply refuse to respect or learn the music business (they
don't even know how to work their gas costs into their price...), which

Post by Les Fradkin
They are, IMHO, an economic necessity these days, since buyers and
promoters will NOT spend the money necessary to present complete bands
unless they are willing to play for next to nothing. And travel for a
4 or 5 piece band can be very costly.

This situation would not exist if not for the musicians themselves, who
not only tolerate it, but actually promote it. These players try to
present themselves as under-appreciated artists, but they are neither.
Clubs and restaurants simply cannot exist without live music, and yet
they pay their musicians less than they do their dish washers. The local
Musician's Union president used to call it "musicians' race to the bottom".

To my mind, the investment in midi equipment is sizable, and should be
used to enhance the art, not the cheapen the cost to a club owner. I
just don't see putting out thousands of dollars just to make it easier
for club owners to abuse musicians even more than they already do.

best,
Bobby


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[Simon Iten]

Thanks for your words regarding musicians playing for less and less. You
hit the nail on the head (as a German would say).

I have the same discussion with other (pro)musicians all the time. Most of
them just accept the situation and try to make money elsewhere, they teach.
But not because they want to.

Ultimately it's the listeners that decide. If they want to listen to
backgroundtrack-solo music or just do not care...

Post by Bob Hansmann
**
Hi Les,
I think the whole 'midi-thang', even with its shortcomings, has opened
up a world of new possibilities to interested guitarists, some artistic
and some not no much, depending upon the sensibilities of the guitarist
(2 words which perhaps should be usually avoided as to their use in the
same sentence). Personally, with or without midi, I would never use
backing tracks of any kind in a live solo performance, but I know some
who have used them effectively - violinist Daisy Jopling comes to mind,
but now that she has established herself more firmly in the U.S.
marketplace, she uses them less and less exclusively.
I am a member of a List which calls itself a 'Jazz Guitar list', and
you'd be surprised at how many players do use backing tracks (mostly
self-made adaptations of cheesy BIAB tracks, seemingly unaware of the
musical interaction so necessary for Jazz to even be called Jazz.. My
advice to these guitarists is either to 'get with the program', or stop
calling themselves Jazz guitarists at all, and just go out as an
inexpensive, part-time gigging player and call it 'a day'. It is my
observation that they do this for purely reasons of economics, and those
because they simply refuse to respect or learn the music business (they
don't even know how to work their gas costs into their price...), which

Post by Les Fradkin
They are, IMHO, an economic necessity these days, since buyers and
promoters will NOT spend the money necessary to present complete bands
unless they are willing to play for next to nothing. And travel for a
4 or 5 piece band can be very costly.

This situation would not exist if not for the musicians themselves, who
not only tolerate it, but actually promote it. These players try to
present themselves as under-appreciated artists, but they are neither.
Clubs and restaurants simply cannot exist without live music, and yet
they pay their musicians less than they do their dish washers. The local
Musician's Union president used to call it "musicians' race to the bottom".
To my mind, the investment in midi equipment is sizable, and should be
used to enhance the art, not the cheapen the cost to a club owner. I
just don't see putting out thousands of dollars just to make it easier
for club owners to abuse musicians even more than they already do.
best,
Bobby

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[Bob Hansmann]

Hi Simon,

Yes, it's always been a problem, but it's now worse then ever, with some
musicians actually paying to play (usually through the musicians having
to purchase a minimum number of tickets to either sell or 'eat').

Post by Simon Iten
Ultimately it's the listeners that decide.

You are spot on. There are lots of people who just won't patronize a
club or restaurant which doesn't provide some reasonable quality music.
Ironically, the clubs which are trying to attract a better clientele are
more severely affected than those which are just looking for lots of
drinkers.

But musicians should make themselves aware of this, and use it to their
advantage by offering higher quality over cheaper price, and, the
eternal optimist that I am notwithstanding, it appears they never will.
Time will tell.

But outlaying thousands of dollars for equipment just to make less money
and make the job both harder (including all the patch prep as well) and
more boring is just nonsensical to my way of thinking.

C'est la vie,
Bobby


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[D. P.]

Bob Hansmann wrote: "...and the most horrendous of all - Band in a Box..."
----------------------
Which one is better for creating backing tracks? I do it sometimes in
GuitarPro, but doing hard to create bass and drum tracks.
BIAB has really tons of styles and those "realtracks" sound not bad to me.

Cheers,
Djordje



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[Simon Iten]

i think his point is, that it's better not to create backing tracks at all… :-)

Post by D. P.
Bob Hansmann wrote: "...and the most horrendous of all - Band in a Box..."
----------------------
Which one is better for creating backing tracks? I do it sometimes in
GuitarPro, but doing hard to create bass and drum tracks.
BIAB has really tons of styles and those "realtracks" sound not bad to me.
Cheers,
Djordje

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[Andre Cholmondeley]

Post by Les Fradkin
Actually, Steve is, strictly speaking, a pitch to Midi guitarist. And quite a good one.

Les

Agreed, Les. And it brings ti mind..it's all about the end result -- WAS THERE MUSIC..??

Not saying that you advocate this per se, but I am pretty sure Steve has never stressed out about latency tests, complex math formulas regarding tracking etc etc

He just gets in the tank and KICKS ASS. I think it;s great how he has integrated guitar synth - -going waaaaaaaaaay back to the Pitchrider stuff in the 80s

He's always had GREAT sound by doing that "parallel" idea of having a CLEAN AMP< with JUST the guitar going into it, then 5 or 6 ernie ball volume pedals - each letting him add in to his other amp(s) his reverb, chorused signal, his synth, his dirty channel etc etc

Very awesome.

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[Harald Schneller]

Some serious players here, appreciate that.
Ain't no girls whatsoever, sorry 4 that 'cause pretty girls rule the world.

Key Akagi comes to my mind, always the same figures, I saw Holdsworth in the Bayrischer Hof in Munich, Germany, fabulous, didn't understand a word.
Well, Miles Davis, I heard him 3 times, autch…
pitch to midi, ja?, An interesting point, that is the definite question, as I have stated already,
beeing able to play synths via a guitar, to be able to grab them colours.
Yeah man, we do not get much of an appreciation, we are out of reach for most of our fellows,
that's the crux in it.
The same old story: Life I love is making music with my friends, so I can't wait to get back on the road again.
What I'd say, find an agency and get that 5 piece band on the road.
Give them 50% maybe and rock on.
Steve Morse has defined the crossroad of music.
There is no rock nor jazz, only music.
The thing is, to be able to play what is in your mind, to bring a band to Montreux, Switzerland.
Steve Morse did that.
Artistic is a good word, we are, let's face it, some circus clowns.
Art is describing our craft and some ism enhances it even further.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's just the way it is.
Well, the use of backing tracks has become, as far as I can see it, a common procedure nowadays.
In my eyes, this means a lack of communication to other people, are we unable to talk to each other?
What are the consequences?
Lately I've been talking to a 70 year old guy for 2 hours about this topic.
He seemd to be unwilling to talk to musicians anymore, so he created his own backup band and go 4 it.
Jazz, by definition, is the spontaneous invention of art.
Therefore, there is no such thing as a precomposed backup band, I don't believe it!
John Coltrane, you know, was a well known junkie, but one of the greatest musician ever lived.
Jazz guitar, well, that is definitely something.
Art again, we do not get paid properly, agreed to that, write some original tunes, simple as that.

Es heisst, den Nagel auf den Kopf getroffen.

In English, hit the nail by it's head.

There is a misunderstanding that has to be cleared.
Art is a one thing, taken seriously it will fulfil your life completely.
However, running a bar is a complicated scene.
You have to pay taxes, rent, waiters, someone's got to clean the toilets…
And now then there's the band.
No matter how good they are, they are a cost factor diminishing the profit of the environment.
Remember, even the owner wants to live.

Oh, no, pay 4 play, this can't be true.
No way, what idiot has found that out

Best Harld Schneller
***@myspace.com










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[Simon Iten]

thanks for the correction :-)
war wohl etwas müde...

Post by Harald Schneller
Some serious players here, appreciate that.
Ain't no girls whatsoever, sorry 4 that 'cause pretty girls rule the world.
Key Akagi comes to my mind, always the same figures, I saw Holdsworth in the Bayrischer Hof in Munich, Germany, fabulous, didn't understand a word.
Well, Miles Davis, I heard him 3 times, autch…
pitch to midi, ja?, An interesting point, that is the definite question, as I have stated already,
beeing able to play synths via a guitar, to be able to grab them colours.
Yeah man, we do not get much of an appreciation, we are out of reach for most of our fellows,
that's the crux in it.
The same old story: Life I love is making music with my friends, so I can't wait to get back on the road again.
What I'd say, find an agency and get that 5 piece band on the road.
Give them 50% maybe and rock on.
Steve Morse has defined the crossroad of music.
There is no rock nor jazz, only music.
The thing is, to be able to play what is in your mind, to bring a band to Montreux, Switzerland.
Steve Morse did that.
Artistic is a good word, we are, let's face it, some circus clowns.
Art is describing our craft and some ism enhances it even further.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's just the way it is.
Well, the use of backing tracks has become, as far as I can see it, a common procedure nowadays.
In my eyes, this means a lack of communication to other people, are we unable to talk to each other?
What are the consequences?
Lately I've been talking to a 70 year old guy for 2 hours about this topic.
He seemd to be unwilling to talk to musicians anymore, so he created his own backup band and go 4 it.
Jazz, by definition, is the spontaneous invention of art.
Therefore, there is no such thing as a precomposed backup band, I don't believe it!
John Coltrane, you know, was a well known junkie, but one of the greatest musician ever lived.
Jazz guitar, well, that is definitely something.
Art again, we do not get paid properly, agreed to that, write some original tunes, simple as that.
Es heisst, den Nagel auf den Kopf getroffen.
In English, hit the nail by it's head.
There is a misunderstanding that has to be cleared.
Art is a one thing, taken seriously it will fulfil your life completely.
However, running a bar is a complicated scene.
You have to pay taxes, rent, waiters, someone's got to clean the toilets…
And now then there's the band.
No matter how good they are, they are a cost factor diminishing the profit of the environment.
Remember, even the owner wants to live.
Oh, no, pay 4 play, this can't be true.
No way, what idiot has found that out
Best Harld Schneller
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[gregor_malecha]

Is this philosophy ?

In all the eight messages Harald posted up to now I have never been able to figure out wat he really wants and what he's talking about.

Nevertheless he did receive some replies. Some members here found a sentence or another interesting enough to hook in.

Maybe I just don't get it. I'll try again.
Nothing for ungood, Harald. (As Germans would say.)

:^) Greg

Post by Harald Schneller
Some serious players here, appreciate that.
Ain't no girls whatsoever, sorry 4 that 'cause pretty girls rule the world.
Key Akagi comes to my mind, always the same figures, I saw Holdsworth in the Bayrischer Hof in Munich, Germany, fabulous, didn't understand a word.
Well, Miles Davis, I heard him 3 times, autch…
pitch to midi, ja?, An interesting point, that is the definite question, as I have stated already,
beeing able to play synths via a guitar, to be able to grab them colours.
... (and so on) ...
Best Harld Schneller

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[Bob Hansmann]

Hi Harald,

Post by Harald Schneller
Ain't no girls whatsoever, sorry 4 that 'cause pretty girls rule the world.

Wow! Most guys are afraid to express that truth. But don't blame the
girls - even the most sophisticated, dedicated, focused, and
well-disciplined man falls for a pretty leg in a short skirt and heels
every time.

c'est la vie,
Bobby


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